Talk:Cyril Bel'deris
I'm having a real hard time with this character's history and attributes. For starters, nearly all Sarians come from one of three planets (Mergansar, Caspar, or Kichnar (the orbital station above it)), or, at the very least, from one of the planets in the Union. Now, being Casohavi-Sarian, it is entirely possible that he, or his parents, traveled alot — the Casohavi are the "windsome folk", and are prone to wander. But, despite that, I really frown on a homeworld of "Unknown", especially when it is linked to a Wookieepedia article that doesn't exist. The images aren't really helping matters either. Granted, Sarians have metallic-sheen eyes, so the eyes could be pearlescent-white or platinum, but there better be a good reason why they're bleeding. Genetically, Sarians do not have that appearance (unless they're one of "the Lost" – ask for details). In addition, we dissuade the use of other-genre anime or "comic book" art, simply because it carries its own connotations with it and it is someone else's work, not your own (or a member of Star Wars MUSH) work. Besides that, on a minor observance, Sarians have Sar Spots that completely cover the arms, shoulders, neck, temples, and scalp, and would have to be added to that, or any image, to represent a Sarian. -- Hawke / Rtufo 16:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC) Cyril Well, the background I'm not ready to put up yet is like this (vaguely); He was born on one of the typical Sarian planets that you speak of, he is taken away, trained at a young age to become an assassin. Now, this is the SW universe. The eyes aren't bleeding, it's a tattoo. And the picture, isn't that just like using a picture of a real actor? They're from a movie. And in a way, the pictures of the actors are someone else's work. On that note, how many pictures can you find that fit his description that have Sar Spots. I was thinking of posting another picture with the Sar Spots. - Cyril (Edit: The Homeworld thing is Unknown, to HIM.) *I don't see an issue in using Anime or pictures, my character is obviously not my own and I dare say that all of her pictures are considered art (as she is a model). *Towards a picture with the spots? I -really- like the picture Liza Molokai put up. I think it definetly is a great picture on the race. It also has her being from Caspar, Spots and all ;D -- A Dispute Tag has been applied to this article. :-Firstly, the tag is being put up primarily because of the image (mis)use. The image is of a character called Kadaj from Final Fantasy. This falls under our "No Anime' or Comic Book art unless they are your, or another MUSH player's, artwork" rule. This also violates our "no cross-genre" rule, since the subject is coming from Final Fantasy. That alone carries its own intonations and implications (or, "baggage") that are not dismissed simply by saying "This is the SW Universe". We concede to, or allow, photographs of "real" actors so long as they do not contain pornography, do not contain readily-identifiable real-world objects (phones, Coke cans, etc.), do not contain the name (in the file name) of a real world actor, and do not come from a recognizable film / set / scene from another genre (Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, Inuyasha, etc.) This includes Final Fantasy. : Secondly, just the mere hint that this character is modeled after Kadaj raises my suspicions, and I fervently hope that this character is not carrying a double-bladed katana and is not associated, in any shape or manner, with some entity called "Sephiroth". : Next, the homeworld is linked to a page-not-in-existence on Wookieepedia (the Star Wars Wikipedia). This is a technical error, and not an effective way to convey this information. : Lastly, this is an article about the character, not written by the character. By selecting this alien species, it can be determined that the homeworld is one of those three mentioned above... and should be stated on the article as such, even if it is "best guess". -- Hawke / Rtufo 06:19, 22 March 2007 (UTC) *Well, From what I can see. There is no recognizable set behind Kadaj. I've seen other peoples artwork all over this site, wether it be actor's pictures or drawings from a comic. I am not going to change them if it comes down to the little tiny details that you're picking at, and no, again I'll say, "This is the SW universe." There is no Sephiroth. *Kadaj's figure is yes, a 'best guess'. If other people can model their characters from real actors, then why can't I model Cyril after a CGI Actor? I agree with Bailey! My pictures don't contain any of the Real World Objects as you stated above. And recognizable'? Doesn't that all come down to what movies people have seen? I've looked over this Wiki, and alot of people have pictures with sets and scenes from all kinds of movies!! - Cyril *I'd much rather have this character image than the one here: Ikihsa Enb'Zik. No offense to Enb'zik, but having the crew and blue set in the picture is just.. eh ;p --Danik Kreldin 22:11, 22 March 2007 (UTC) * XD - Seifer :-I'd have to agree with you, DK... the Enb'Zik image is quite out of context. But, getting back to the issue at hand... the use of images here, regardless of if it's "for a game" or not, is tenuous at best. These images are not ours. We did not create them and we certainly did not get permission for their use here by either the photographer or by the subject. The representation of my character (Doron Rtufo) is Edward Burns. If Edward Burns was ever to find the image on this Wiki, and state that he wanted those images removed from association with my character, and removed from the Wiki's database, then he could and I'd have to comply. This is one of the reasons we disallow the real name of an actor to appear in the filename of the image itself. : This takes on a wholly more serious context when you deal with drawn (and this includes CGI) images. Those are the result of someone else's work, and, monetary value aside, they intended those artworks/images to represent or convey something that is not what you are using them for. Thus, you are violating the integrity of that image and doing a disservice to that artist. As a designer/artist myself, I can tell you that there is nothing that would set me off more grievously than to see someone take my work and flippantly ascribe it to something else that is nowhere near the purpose it was designed for. An example would be someone taking the starship Enterprise from Star Trek and slapping it into the Wiki here to say that it is a new Hutt battlecruiser. Someone worked long and hard to develop a unique design for Star Trek, and the same can be said for the creator of Kadaj — they designed that character for Final Fantasy, not for you on this Wiki. I know it's not your work, because if it was, you'd have made it according to your character's "real" appearance instead of lifting it from some webpage somewhere. : Anyone else's actions here do not make this right, or are an excuse — they'll be dealt with in due time. This discussion deals with this character. -- Hawke / Rtufo 22:39, 22 March 2007 (UTC) Of course. I agree with you, this discussion does deal with this character, though it sounds like you have a Wiki wide problem on your hands. :) - Cyril * What's fair is Fair. If you make him take down his post for art, then you'll have to do the same to Keline, Tyy'sun.. Possibly Arissa (not that she has an art figure, but that picture is quite obviously not meant for the Starwars Genre, as well as me.. I know that Tyra Banks would not want to be considered a washed up Moff.. I honestly have nothing to gain by being apart of this fight - but seriously? Just because of a picture, when others are blatantly doing the same thing? ;/ - Bailey Laran **The vast majority of us are skirting the edge of violating someone's copyright, in a strict sense. Seems more like a matter of taste to me. I'd personally rather see that one FF CG headshot photoshopped with Sar spots than see a random image of an actor wearing bland contemporary clothing. I don't mind people using stuff from other genres if they attempt to give it "lived in" realism like the original trilogy. My pic is from Aliens, but because I gave Newt a head transplant and it doesn't have Sigorney or slimy toothy monsters in it, no one complains. --Lolkje 05:52, 23 March 2007 (UTC) There's skirting and then there's violating. Drawn art is the intellectual property of its creator and belongs to whomever holds copyright to it. Somewhere in the stacks of copyright law discussion near where it says you cannot copyright a title is something about not being able to copyright the face you were born with. That is immaterial, however. What is pertinent is that the image presented as this character's is neither depicting a Sarian properly (and Liza needs facial spotting, to be precise) nor is it appropriate to use copyrighted art in that manner here. My User page indicates my willingness to help create unique, or at least well-enough altered art to keep the wiki out of copyright trouble. I've done that with several images already, as have others. It's not like there are no resources for those wanting character pictures. Xerxes, below, has the right of it. Alienplayer 13:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC) Image policy discussion I believe Hawke has appropriately applied the policy as written to this article. If people would like to discuss the appropriateness of that policy, it would probably be better served on the policy's talk page or in the public forum rather than the talk page of this individual article. -- Xerxes 15:27, 23 March 2007 (UTC) Selective Use The issue is not necessarily the policy, I don't have an issue with that. I just don't want it to be a selective process, what is good for the goose, but definetly we can take it to the public server. =D What's the decision here? --Danik Kreldin 02:12, 8 November 2007 (UTC) I'd like to actually request this page be nuked, as Cyril has met the same fate. --Seifer 12:58, 12 December 2007 (+12GMT) *Has the entire character and his history be retconned into never existing? If yes, I'll nuke the page... if not, no real need for it to be deleted, as he still existed on the game, unless you really want it gone. --Danik Kreldin 01:21, 12 December 2007 (UTC) *Whatever you wana do D. --Seifer